Fallen Role Models - Keeping The Value

"Recognizing a Genuine Teacher":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwxrsLvyrkc

Brings to mind the quote "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God"

Great article. I think it is quite well written without the vehement mud slinging at Nithyananda that one sees in most other sites. Just an after thought though...."Innocent until proven guilty." is the basic premise of the law to every Indian citizen. Swami Nithyananda deserves to be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Hence the suggestions of the author only become valid when the law proves him guilty..(unless of course we let sun tv be the judge, jury and executioner). Until then the followers of Nithyananda will do well to treat him as they always have..as their guru.

"I find it very hard to follow Ayn Rand's philosophy, after learning that she died insane."

You were misinformed.

Mark Wickens wrote:
You were misinformed.

Yes, but your comment misses the point. I am thankful I was misinformed, or my professor wouldn't have shared that gem with me. It should really make no difference to me how Ayn Rand lived or died - if I have seen the truth of her philosophy in my own experience, then that value is for me to keep.

In many ways, my misinformation is not dissimilar to the current situation with Swami Nithyananda. Who knows what the right information is, but the question is - does it matter?

Thomas wrote:
Swami Nithyananda deserves to be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Hence the suggestions of the author only become valid when the law proves him guilty..(unless of course we let sun tv be the judge, jury and executioner).

That misses the point of the article. The question is not how Swami Nithyananda deserves to be treated (I agree with you there). The question is whether any information about the Swami's life should influence the value a disciple has already received from his philosophical teachings.

"I find it very hard to follow Ayn Rand's philosophy, after learning that she died insane. I was very influenced by her writing, but decided to throw it all out after knowing about her personal life."

I am not surprised at all.. What else can you expect from someone (like Rand) who writes such lunatic stuff? This only reaffirms my belief that not only Rand but all her follwers are also quite insane.
If that Buddhist guy was a pedophile quite obviously he wasn't practising what he preached... Why do we need to learn 'lessons' from someone who aren't strong enough to live those lessons in their own life?

ct, the standard of practicing what you preach is an important one for our own growth. However, that standard, when imposed on others, makes us poorer for we are not able to accept the gold people carry, and everyone has some gold to give.

The lens of judgment here is on you and your enrichment, not on others and their failings.

Dear Somik,

Well written, I do feel the same way about Rajaneesh. He had some real good insights into humanity and the nature of existence. But his deeds sometimes belied that wisdom.

I have a small quibble. The problem is that people tend to elevate these swamis to the God status. And some swamis do encourage that tendency for their personal benefit. People begin to perceive them as the highest paragons of virtue. That they sometimes fall from such heights is not surprising. When they do fall, it should at least awaken people to the possibility that there is perhaps no one person who knows everything. The wisdom handed out by people like Nityananda Swami and Ayn Rand is not the ultimate truth (if there is such a thing). It is much better to think for oneself and with life's experiences and knowledge one can figure out what is best.

Incidentally Nityananda Swami is a frequent visitor to Phoenix where I reside. One of my friends invited me to Swami's discourses. Out of curiosity I viewed some of his lectures on youtube. I didn't like what I saw and decided against going to the discourse. Intellectual arrogance doesn't suit a wise person.

RK

Your ignorance is only shadowed by your outright betrayal of any real thought process, knowledge or understanding of Ayn Rand.

Have you ever even read the works: Fiction or Non-fiction.

Fools such as yourself cause the death of moral men and values.

You didn't make clear who you were addressing, but I will assume it was me. Yes, I have read Ayn Rand, and like many aspects of her work. I don't consider her insane through her work, and was misinformed (don't know how it happened - people read what they want to read, and I mistook her husband's dementia for her own).

Of course, this article has nothing to do with Ayn Rand, and if anything, it argues that Rand's personal life should have little bearing on the value I've already concluded is in her philosophy.

Nityananda never called himself a Godman. He was more a 'lifestyle' guru advocating people to follow yoga and meditation.

What was shown in the media is not a crime in legal angle, but it was certainly an unpardonable sin in moral angle. His expose would have made others of his tribe more cautious in indulgence and certainly they will not refrain from indulging in it.
He was caught on camera, perhaps due to real estate rivalry. Whether his teachings are going to be followed by others or not, his capture on camera is going to be a lesson for his clan.

Personally, I had never believed that Nithyananda was Enlightened or anything... he was very knowledgeable and new his stuff which he delivered rather awkwardly.

Now about the scandal:

1. He did nothing wrong. Its his life and he has his needs and he is doing it consensually in his own room.. so why should others be bothered?

2. I disagree with Suresh that its a "sin". Sin and not sin is a language of morality and this morality stuff is totally useless... it has no meaning since it is contextual anyways.

3. This brings to the fore the utter bankruptcy of the liberals and the media. On one side they want to celebrating Nude Religious Art of Hussain and chastising anyone who protests by calling him/her "Close Minded" or Prudish. While on the other hand, they are so worked up about one guy in his 30s making love in his own room in a consensual manner. If there was ever an evidence of our intellectual and mental bankruptcy these two incidents revealed it.

4. If he is acceptable or not is the problem of his followers. As for me, if I find wisdom in his words and message.. I don't think what he does behind closed doors in his privacy is of any consequence! Its his time.. his body and his mind. Even Ram bowed down to Ravan for his wisdom in the end despite his afflictions.

Very well said Desh.

RK

RK wrote:
It is much better to think for oneself and with life's experiences and knowledge one can figure out what is best.

I completely agree - a great standard to follow.

Desh, thank you for your enriching comments. I agree with your views. Morality is a much lower standard than spirituality. To the question "What is the difference between spirituality and morality?" Dr. Ariyaratne (Gandhi of Sri Lanka) in a talk at Stanford, said that spirituality is the space where all distinctions and labels ceased to exist. That is where we just are. Morality is a much lower idea than spirituality, where distinctions do come in. It just has been seen that those who pursue spirituality naturally follow the rules of morality. For example, a spiritual person would find it very hard to tell a lie or deceive others. His idea of morality seemed to be much larger than the dictums of any creed - they were based on universal ideas of "truth-telling" and "right action."

Having said that, I think the mistake we tend to make is that following the rules of morality will lead to spirituality. As you rightly said, the path for each individual is for that individual alone to decide.

Suresh - the lesson for his clan was my focus, and my fundamental question remains, as Desh has eloquently restated in his last point, does it matter? Should my professor have discarded Buddhist teachings, or the ideal of the Buddha, because a revered teacher could not uphold it? Should Nithyananda's followers reject teachings of the Vedanta and other principles taught by him because of this incident (assuming as someone mentioned earlier that he did deceive his disciples about his intentions, which is far from proven).

The practical implications of deception, if any, will remain, but it seems to me that the gold he handed out remains golden.

Somik - very mature comment. Thanks. :)

Good article. The Word is more important than the deed of those who speak the Word.

Somik - Very well written article. You are making a great point here; Our whole life is a collection of ideas, right from our childhood, we gather ideas from different sources and start to apply it in our own lives and experience first hand some of the ideas you learn. If you go back and start analyzing every source and judge the source based on your current knowledge, you will end up insane! What applies to you is your own truth.

Neat article. Somik, in our language we say: Never go searching for the source of the river or that of a saint. Life takes us to a teacher at a certain point in time where we needed that "knowledge" in that way. We move on. Everything is dynamic in the universe and we try to cling to it as something permanent and unchanging- and we get "shocked".

Hmm... What if the source is polluted? :)

"Life takes us to a teacher at a certain point in time where we needed that "knowledge" in that way. We move on. "
Hundred percent true. Life gives us the best lessons and we always meet the right teachers when we are ready. Then its time to move on.